Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread

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Online Bullethead

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3300 on: September 28, 2018, 03:15 AM »
We're getting barbecue? Okay, this next DLC sounds worth it already.

I'm just speculating but I think it's a good guess.  If that IS what "Just Ribbin'" turns out to be, though, I certainly hope Frontier puts actual American extras on the food instead of the strange (to American tastes) Euro extras common to most food shops.  I'm having nightmares already that we'll be able to put pineapple slices on BBQ ribs instead of BBQ sauce :).

Taking this more to a general PC discussion, has anybody ever done any research on the effects of food and drink extras?  My own very limited observations show that each one actually has an effect on peeps.  For example, putting fruit chunks in drinks causes a drink not only to satisfy the peep's thirst need as normal, but also slightly reduces the peep's hunger need, which means you sell slightly less food in the long run.
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Offline AemJaY

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3301 on: October 09, 2018, 06:54 AM »
Streamer and Youtuber from switzerland!
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Offline Redhair

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3302 on: October 09, 2018, 07:34 AM »
I think we get more like an international set.
(...)
So my guess: An European set (but Sushi is off), or an international set.




0:)

Asian theme is a many requested set.
Curious what the new creations will be ^^

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Online Bullethead

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3303 on: October 09, 2018, 09:37 AM »
Thanks for the word, Jay!

The passport stamps are Japan, China, France, UK, Germany, and Mexico at the front, and USA, Italy, Spain, and Morocco at the back.  The video shows China and Morocco for sure with perhaps Italy and Germany in the background here and there.  Wow, those things look outstanding!  Lots of cool parts in there for all sorts of things.  I'd be happy with just a couple of those and letting Frontier milk the rest of the world indefinitely :).

And, we get a motocoaster, which seems to be a big thing these days.  Cool.  In fact, we get 2 different types of motorcycles, too, if you look close.  And is that a new flat in the right background of the China scene?  Looks like it has Chinese characters on the top, too.

All in all, very nice.  And only 1 week to wait ;)


« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 09:39 AM by Bullethead »
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Offline Grrt

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3304 on: October 09, 2018, 09:49 AM »
So this pack is gonna be a giant part dump, basically?

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3305 on: October 09, 2018, 10:08 AM »
So this pack is gonna be a giant part dump, basically?

Well, we also get 10 new shops and their associated vending machines, signs, and awnings, plus new hats to sell, 2 versions of the motocoaster, and a new transport ride.  But for the most part, yeah, it does seem to be mostly building and scenery parts:  walls, roofs, shop fronts, doors, windows, and trim, plus decorative things like little dragons.

Which is awesome :).  So many parts for their intended purposes, and doubtless many will have countless ways to use them out of context for other things.  I'm stoked  :laughing_skull:
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Offline Fisherman

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3306 on: October 09, 2018, 01:14 PM »
Well... It looks neato but you guys know how disappointed I am that the didn't include rides everyone wanted.   :-\

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3307 on: October 09, 2018, 02:10 PM »
It looks like another pack I will not be purchasing. I didn't purchase the last pack either. Sadly, Wonder World has been shelved, as they have released nothing I can use to continue that park.
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Offline Fisherman

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3308 on: October 09, 2018, 02:13 PM »
I'll buy it for all the new walls and things...but I have no use for motorcycle coasters (and they are promoting it as two coasters...but it's really just the same with two slightly different types of motorcycle...and what...no Schwarzkopf?!  Really?!).  The peoplemover thing sounds kinda neat but I wish it had been a chairlift instead.   :'(
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 02:15 PM by Fisherman »

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Offline CoastersPaul

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3309 on: October 09, 2018, 03:24 PM »
Are there any pictures of the new transport ride yet?

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Offline Fisherman

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3310 on: October 09, 2018, 03:33 PM »
No...not yet.  It sounds like a peoplemover type thing...but who knows...

Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3311 on: October 09, 2018, 06:58 PM »
It looks like another pack I will not be purchasing. I didn't purchase the last pack either. Sadly, Wonder World has been shelved, as they have released nothing I can use to continue that park.

Is there something specifically you've been waiting for, Shy?  I really thought the vintage pack had some stuff that would work well for your circus theme, and the adventure boats we got were really the one thing holding you back I could think of.   If it's just scenery needs, hopefully the new tool for creating scenery will let you make those circus tents and anything else you need.  If it's ride based, then yeah, I would say it's time to be worried.

I'll buy the new pack because of course I will, but I'm also going to jump on the disappointment wagon.  Frontier's creativity and willingness to write new code seems to be fading.  We keep getting rehashes of existing rides and functionality... the restaurants are a prime example.  It's the same box  with barely different effects on peeps.  Some of the most interesting stuff is now happening off-screen.  At this point they might as well just let us customize the effects of these boxes ourselves, because then we could say "this one is a funhouse, this one is a movie theater, etc."  It'll just be RCT3 minus the pretty shells.  Although technically we usually ended up going out of our way to hide those pretty shells, so there's that.

But the real difference here, putting 2003 graphics aside, is that RCT3 had a lot more to do at this stage in the game.  We could go underwater,  we had rain, animal enclosures, pools, and most importantly to me:  Drop downs to pick which type of car we wanted to use on a coaster.  Using the same track for a vintage car vs. a stupid cat with a magic hat vs. a sleigh is not 3 separate rides, Frontier.   It's the same ride.  There's a profound lack of generic car types for each coaster, forcing us to use tracks that don't fit the ride we're trying to create and still not ending up with the car we really want for that ride.

As always, I'm grateful they're still creating content and I try to set an expectation that each update is the last.  Even though that would be really dumb, because there's money to make here.  And there's no reason this game shouldn't exceed RCT3 in every imaginable way.  They've already said that pools and animals are off the table, so at the very least can we get a more robust ride catalog?   Slides, trampolines, the grand carousel, swan boats, and Fisherman's chair lifts have now become glaringly obvious omissions.  If this stuff needs to be incorporated via an expansion pack that costs more, so be it, but at least give us that option.  It's been two years.

If SHYGUY is bored with your theme park simulation game, we have a very serious problem.

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3312 on: October 09, 2018, 09:18 PM »
If SHYGUY is bored with your theme park simulation game, we have a very serious problem.
You've hit the nail on the head. At this stage of the game, I have lost all interest in Planet Coaster. Three DLCs in a row that I've had no use for has dried up all the excitement and inspiration I once had for this game. The lazy way hotels and restaurants have been implemented, the lack of anything really innovative and new, the way every new ride or coaster is little more than a re-skin of something we already have, the new vending  machines, most of which I've never seen in an existing theme park (french fries and pizza from a vending machine. Really??) The branding of their food vendors that only fits in Planet Coaster Land, the lack of variety of gift shop options, (A balloon shop? Really? Never have I seen a gift shop that sells balloons), picnic benches that you can't place because they magnetically attach themselves to anywhere except where you want them. And in all honesty, I don't want them at all. I want tables and chairs like you see in real theme parks. But what does it matter, as 90% of the peeps don't even use them and those that do, sit for about 5 seconds and then leave, so your dining plaza's are typically always void of peeps, aside from one or two tables while they scarf down their 5 second meal.

No grand carousel, no sky lift, no gentle flume rides, no Schwarzkopf shuttleloop, no rowboats (okay, so rowboats aren't high on anyone's list, but RCT3 had them and I need them! :P)... light that bleeds through walls, walls that don't block sunlight, a horrible fireworks mixer, new fireworks that form words and other shapes impossible in the real world. Should I go on with this rant? I'm sure I can find a lot more things that I've been simply putting up with in hopes that the new content coming to the game would make up for all its shortcomings. But I'm not seeing that happen. Oh, did I mention I despise the path system? And the fact that you can't build a full size park without bringing your computer to its knees, even after you went out and spent a fortune on the fastest pc you could find.

Okay. End of rant.

I do commend Frontier for really trying hard to create the next generation of theme park simulator. They made a very good start. But so many things have simply missed the mark, and the same exact problems and limitations of RCT3 are all there in Planet Coaster, and then some. So do I think Planet Coaster is doomed to slowly fade into obscurity like your average computer game that is played once and then never looked at again? I hope not. I still have hope that we will get more variety of rides and attractions. I do think that the inclusion of UGC will GREATLY extend the life of the game and hopefully make it easier to create the things we want in our parks by modeling them ourselves or downloading what other talented modders come up with. I think that will take away some of the tedium of building things now, which is probably the number one reason people give up on this game and the number one reason that 90% of the projects shown here at SGW never get finished.

RCT3 didn't really blossom until we cracked the code and were able to create our own CS and then eventually CTRs and CFRs. I think the same could happen with Planet Coaster. The game may only be in its infancy right now. It's popularity could sky rocket with the inclusion of UGC. My inspiration could, and probably would come back, if that happens. But right now, I'm just burned out and somewhat disappointed with the game. (I know, the above rant made it sound like I hate the game, but I was mostly just venting my frustrations) I think I just need a long break, and some new content that I'm hoping to get, and my creative juices will start to flow once again.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 07:50 PM by shyguy »
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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3313 on: October 09, 2018, 10:53 PM »
See, I'm a tinkerer, not an artist, and I don't have any grandiose plans.  Or any plans at all.  I just enjoy playing with the toys I have and working around the lack of those I don't.  I have no expectations so I never feel disappointed by what's in and what's not in any DLC.  After all, I have no say in Frontier's production decisions, so it would be silly to think they owed me something or even had an obligation to listen to me.

Thus, I'm quite happy with this new and all previous DLCs.  Every one has given me new stuff to build with, new features to experiment with, and easier ways of doing certain things that before.  All good.

I guess it all boils down to the fact that I watch the donut, not the hole.  IOW, I focus on what we have, not what we don't have.  I recommend this POV to others; they might enjoy life more that way ;)
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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3314 on: October 10, 2018, 04:11 AM »
All valid complaints and I share many of them shy.  I did forget about the rowboats, but in all honesty they weren't a huge draw for WW.  And remember that you built the original RCT version with far less than what we have now (probably with collision detection as well?)  I'm ok with using a little imagination on restaurants, shops, and hotels, which is easy since I seldom let peeps into my park anyway.  But custom kiddie flat rides that don't do anything at all is starting to burn me out.  The community WILL supply every piece of scenery we need, but I think working custom rides are a long way off and I really wish Frontier would step up on that.

I do love the game and I'm still losing hours each week to it (in a good way.)  I love it so much that I get very frustrated and disappointed sometimes, especially when I see a business plan that isn't designed to last long and isn't working for the community.  1 or 2 repetitive flat rides per quarter isn't cutting it.  But I'll also point out (again) that Frontier's DLC comes at an incredibly low price point compared with any other game I've seen, so I can afford to pay for stuff I don't need, I'd just so much really rather pay a tiny bit more for stuff I do need.

And now I want a donut.  Thanks, Bullethead.  :P

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Online AnubisLive

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3315 on: October 10, 2018, 04:22 AM »
I kinda get Shy and Bullethead at the same time. I mean, looking at the full product PC is still a bit uneven. On which points? That might be subjective, because we all want different things from the game.

I would like to say this though. Even though the previous packs did not got me excited as a whole, there are always a few trinkets in there to make the pack worth the price. I mean, even though i'm not into creating a vintage style park, or park area. I did enjoy some pieces because they work really well in a main street. The beauty of the building system of PC is that you don't have to use the item it was meant to do, but you can use it for other stuff as well. Every pack has been worth it, for the detail items alone.

For me the balance between ride option and scenery items is WAY off. If you look at the next update, its 360 scenery items vs. 1 flat and 2 coasters (arbitrary because they are the same, but with a different skin). Now, in defence of frontier: In the days of RCT3 we were able to create Custom Scenery, Flatrides and Coaster Cars and tracks. So we know, the time and effort differences between these items, we have experienced it ourselves. If you look at time consumption, Custom Scenery was the quickest one to do, but creating a quality set, will still take a considerate amount of time. Coastercars is 2nd place. It took a little bit more modelling and some minor coding was required. After that came the Flatrides, which required even more advanced modelling and coding. The tracks were the hardest job of all. We experienced this ourselves, and in terms of time consumption, Frontier must be dealing with the same. Therefore what we get is an update every three months, with a shitload of scenery because that is the easiest way to stuff the pack.

Now i imagen there are going to be changes next year. Since we get the thememakers toolkit. We can, as a community, create scenery ourselves. Therefor, for Frontier selling packs, scenery should no longer get priority, even from a bussiness point of view, since this is no longer a selling point for these packs. Which would mean, that they can focus on the stuff we can't do because they have more time now that they don't have to work as hard on scenery anymore. And thats where the "stuff we want" part should really kick into gear. I mean, the flatride list need a MAJOR update. Im not talking about 4 or 5 a pack. Im talking about, the amount should be double (at least) by the end of next year. The same goes for the tracked rides. (non coaster). Im convinced that they will do this next year, because they have no business creating just scenery items anymore.

Also an overhaul of the rollercoaster map should happen. Right now you have like 50 (i havent counted) rollercoaster types that you're able to select in the rollercoaster menu. Well in fact there might only be 10-15 types of rollercoasters. What they should go for, is a system where you can only select the tracktype under the rollercoaster tab in the GUI. Then when you picked your rollercoaster track type, then (in the building tool) you should be able to select the car. Way easier to navigate for us. Also for them it's easier because the can separate car and track designing.

Waterrides.... yeah this is the biggest problem in the rides categories. I'm sorry but its a mess. I do like the river rapids, you can create quitte some amazing stuff with that one, but the flumes are not very well done. Gripes are the must have incline before the drop, also the drop it self where you can tinker with the angle at which it drops, and also the chosen angle, is far from from realistic.

Last but not least, and they started already with this in the new free update, improve and streamline GUI. Ingame and also main menu. Now that i got the game a little longer and my downloaded parks are closing in on 100+ it's ridicolous how difficult to find the park you want. You can sort on "oldest", at which they look at the time it was posted on the workshop. Also you can sort on A-Z, which doesn't even work properly. (i'm i the only one?).

I have little problems with the path system so for me it's not an issue. But i think that that won't be changed to much anymore anyway, because this is pretty much engine and main coding stuff. They won't go back to that i presume. I also don't expect much in the way of performance boosting for the same reasons. Some minor tweaks still might be possible, but nothing major there.


But enough with the negativity, like i said, im positive about the future of PC. I view it, as Shy said, as an enfant state. But i believe that with the thememakers toolkit PC, will have the potential to grow to be a teenager and further. Heres to our future!





« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 04:26 AM by AnubisLive »

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Offline Grrt

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3316 on: October 10, 2018, 10:55 AM »
It's my opinion that if they just made pieces in the right scale, overlooking all the other issues would be a lot easier. Building smaller should take less pieces, not more. It shouldn't be game breaking to want to build something that's actually at a realistic scale. And building at realistic scale shouldn't be as difficult as it is. So many parks get abandoned because the scale just becomes unmanageable, especially across lands. You shouldn't need a damn architecture degree just to build something at a human scale.

The obvious second largest culprit is the pathway system. I think what would have been best is if you could just 'paint' pathways like you do terrain. So many people simply can't get a park together because the path system is so contrary to how you lay out pathways in a real environment, and it wreaks havoc on their ability to visualize lands and lay out structures and boundaries. Even for architecturally minded users. I mean, how many people now rely on outside photo editing programs just to lay out parks? And go through intense planning? This is supposed to be a game, not a job. You shouldn't need a damn architecture degree just to lay out a land.

It should be 'I want this type of thing, so I'm gonna start building and see where it goes, because there's a wealth of intuitive pieces that make visualizing it easy.' Now it seems to get anything decent, you have to pore over inspiration images, and then slave for hours with tiny parts and pieces, art shapes, and use pieces not anywhere near their intended use to get a realistic structure. The abstraction can be fun but I mean.. to build your entire park like that is totally unreasonable. You shouldn't need a damn architecture degree to create basic architectural features.

So to sum up, this is supposed to be a game, not a masters level architecture class. Frontier plays to the hyper creatives who are used to slaving endlessly over projects, but they often forget to play to the people who simply want to do this for fun. Not everyone is out to create the next Disneyland or Universal Studios. And to those who are, it shouldn't be that hard since 90% of the content in the game is based on Disney and Universal parks.

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Offline CoastersPaul

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3317 on: October 10, 2018, 11:26 AM »
When UGC comes out, I see half my use of it just being flat images with transparencies for easy signs and shapes that won't kill my PC. Assuming that's possible. Those might not look as good or be as necessary in Planet Coaster as they were in RCT3, but I think it'll be enough for my purposes most of the time.

Custom billboards would be amazing - what we could do with some more sizes - but I don't have much hope for Frontier to open that much right now. UGC will be great anyway. I just hope after that they pivot to just rides instead of ending support for the game right then.

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3318 on: October 10, 2018, 12:14 PM »
I'll bet a bottle of top shelf single malt that we never see any major overhauls to any part of PC, and I won't get my hopes up for seeing many more rides made for PC.  First, I never get my hopes up about anything in life, especially future game stuff  :).  But second, I just don't think it's in Frontier's best interests.  I think they'd be better served working on PC2 instead, provided they want to.

It goes like this, from a game company's POV....  Games have a lifecycle.  Development, Release and Initial Support, Maintenance, and Abandonment.  The Development phase lasts several years during which you spend a fortune on making everything but don't get a cent of return on this investment.  In Release and Initial Support, you HOPEFULLY get enough sales to pay off the game's debt with a bit of profit, but you still have to spend a lot on fixing all the bugs and, if time permits, finish a few extra assets that you didn't quite have time for prior to release. 

Worst case, the game immediately flops and, after some token bug-fixes than never really fix it, is quickly Abandoned.  Win some, lose some.  Best case, the game sells well and doesn't have THAT much to fix, and customers want more.  But after a couple months, it's not really making the money to justify having a large staff.  So the game goes into the Maintenance phase with a skeleton crew, just the few that the ongoing trickle of new sales and occasional spikes from DLC can support.  Everybody else is either moved to new projects (as that's where the money is) or laid off (especially if the last game flopped with unpaid bills).

Once a game enters the Maintenance phase, it is what it is.  All you'll ever see is ongoing bug fixes and occansional DLCs that don't require much work.  The reason for this is very simple:  money.  Rewriting or adding major game features is the same as making a new game from scratch---it requires LOTS of time by LOTS of people, so is VERY expensive.  AND it doesn't make any money because it doesn't generate any new sales.  This is why it NEVER happens, and is why we get sequels instead.  Anyway, the Maintenance phase is a long good-bye with the company shifting more and more staff away from this old project as time goes on.  Eventually, once it's no longer profitable (from DLC sales), the last of the skeleton crew goes elsewhere and the game is Abandoned.

PC is obviously in late in the Maintenance phase.  Besides being 2 years old, it bears all the signs of having its staff reduced since the Vintage pack.  Some of them are working on TMT instead of the game itself, which is further evidence Frontier will be closing PC out fairly soon.  Frontier's just trying to get out of it gracefully and leave us with something (TMT) to let us entertain ourselves for the next few years.  I honestly don't expect any more DLC, especially since this World's Fair thing did so much of the world at once instead of saving some for later.

The above is just my opinion but I think I'm right.  There's no sense whining about it; this is what happens to all games.  PC is what it is, we won't be seeing any major changes or additions, and probably won't see much if anything at all ever again from Frontier.  So enjoy it for what it is and be thankful they took the time to make us what they did.

The real questions I have are whether or not there'll be a PC2 and, if so, what its timeframe might be.  Wishes for major changes should be put in the context of PC2.  And the more DLC PC sells, the more likely it is we'll see a PC2, and sooner rather than later.  If I was Frontier, though, I'd take a long break once I washed my hands of PC, given the unbelievable ingratitude and utterly unjustified sense of entitlement so many folks exhibit.

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3319 on: October 10, 2018, 01:00 PM »
I'll admit that I have heard rumors of a PC2 in the planning stage. Just rumors. But if this is true, than I agree that once UGC is implemented, we may not see any more support or new content for this game. And a PC2 makes perfect sense. There are so many bottlenecks in this game that slow it down because it can't use the resources available in modern computers and Windows 10. Planet Coaster is poorly optimized, and there is nothing they can do to change that without starting over with a new product that can take advantage of Windows 10, Directx 12 (I believe) hyperthreading, multiple cores, and a lot of technical stuff that I don't fully understand. :P

This is another reason that I have shelved my Wonder World project until I know just exactly what's up with the future of Planet Coaster.
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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3320 on: October 10, 2018, 01:03 PM »
Games have a lifecycle.

...

Worst case, the game immediately flops and, after some token bug-fixes than never really fix it, is quickly Abandoned.  Win some, lose some.  Best case, the game sells well and doesn't have THAT much to fix, and customers want more.  But after a couple months, it's not really making the money to justify having a large staff.  So the game goes into the Maintenance phase with a skeleton crew, just the few that the ongoing trickle of new sales and occasional spikes from DLC can support.  Everybody else is either moved to new projects (as that's where the money is) or laid off (especially if the last game flopped with unpaid bills).

..

Rewriting or adding major game features is the same as making a new game from scratch---it requires LOTS of time by LOTS of people, so is VERY expensive.  AND it doesn't make any money because it doesn't generate any new sales.  This is why it NEVER happens, and is why we get sequels instead.  Anyway, the Maintenance phase is a long good-bye with the company shifting more and more staff away from this old project as time goes on.  Eventually, once it's no longer profitable (from DLC sales), the last of the skeleton crew goes elsewhere and the game is Abandoned.

PC is obviously in late in the Maintenance phase.  Besides being 2 years old, it bears all the signs of having its staff reduced
Somebody please tell Paradox already, they've been having what's left of their Crusader Kings II team (and a few modders and the like that they've hired since) putting out DLC alongside free updates for six years now and it's getting a little out of hand. Also Holy Fury release date when And, okay, Stellaris has only been out for two years but they keep changing how everything works, seems like sometime they should just decide what game it is.

Obviously a different situation, of course - Paradox has a notoriously aggressive DLC policy and CKII's updates require much less art than Planet Coaster. PC rides, of course, are even worse than the scenery they're basically giving up on now, and might not be worth making for very long.

But I'm still not convinced a sequel would be worth it. If we get everything from PC and its DLC, then whatever few sales might have been left are off the table. If we don't, we might get the Sims (or Civ, or some other series) problem where the sequel's base game doesn't have nearly as much to offer as the last version, and that's going to kill initial sales hard.

If I were Frontier, I'd probably go back to the RCT3 strategy of disappearing, working on a major expansion, and then offering bundles with that expansion - and maybe some of the old DLC. But part of that is just me wanting a major expansion even if it takes longer; it might not actually be more profitable.

And if they have an improved engine to run it on, that justifies PC2 a bit more.

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3321 on: October 10, 2018, 01:12 PM »
I personally would rather Frontier keep supporting and adding to Planet Coaster for years to come. But I don't really see this happening. When RCT3 was released, we got two big expansions, all within a year's time, give or take. With those two expansions, we got tons of rides and attractions to use. I couldn't give you the exact figures, but probably at least triple what we have with Planet Coaster in the same time frame. Frontier would have to allot a lot of time and resources over a period of at least 4-5 more years to give us what we got in RCT3 in just a year or two. Unless they have absolutely nothing else on their plate to work on, I don't see that happening.
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Offline wabigbear

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3322 on: October 10, 2018, 02:06 PM »
I don't know, Frontier's Elite Dangerous came out in 2014, and it's still being updated and supported, and while it's certainly a different style of game from PC, I'd disagree that it's obvious that PC is nearing the end of it's run.  They may switch focus, but I see nothing that says for sure it's going to come to an end anytime soon.  If anything I think Frontier has shown they will stick with a title long term if it's in their interests to do so.

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Online Bullethead

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3323 on: October 10, 2018, 05:07 PM »
@Coaster Paul:
Paradox IMHO is an aberration in several respects.  I think they're better at marketing than game design and business planning.  I can't think of anybody else similar.  In any case, they're definitely apples and oranges to Frontier.

Are you accepting my wager?

@Wagi:
Elite Dangerous is MMO so doesn't follow the lifecycle of single-player games.  It's a cash cow that will last a decade more or less, like all its ilk.  While I have exactly zero interest in playing it, I"m thankful it's there because it gives Frontier a steady income to relieve some of the pressure of the "always have to push new stuff" treadmill of most game companies.  Of course, this means it has high upkeep costs but OTOH it's worth it in that being an MMO, the existing community is always buying DLC and also bringing in new sales of both the base game and much of the existing DLC, so it continually rains money until the graphics get too outdated for current hardware.

The wetdream of every game company is to have an MMO because 1) it's money by itself and 2) this money allows thoughtful contemplation and long, slow polishing of pet projects.  Neither of these is an option without a steady income.

Are you accepting my wager?

@Shyguy:
Besides the Win10/Dx12 issues you mention, PC has quite a few hardwired limits that absolutely prevent implementation of many of the things we all want to see short of a major rewrite.  Which ain't ever gonna happen because it makes absolutely no business sense, even if you were Paradox Interactive :).  Some examples:

* 1 Station Per Ride:  This not only prevents the very common practice of having separate loading and unloading coaster stations, it also utterly precludes any chance of water slides and similar things where peeps get on in 1 place and off in another.  It does not preclude ski lifts and such things but it definitely puts limits on what's possible.  IMHO this is the main reason why Horror Heights is a flat ride instead of a track ride.

* Paths in General:  Don't get me wrong, Frontier HAS made some good tweaks to pathing, such as allowing tunneling and letting paths level the surface below them.  Paths REALLY sucked prior to those changes and now I'm not too annoyed with them.  They could be better, but I'll take what I can get.  However, I think we all agree that laying out paths would be much better the whole process was more fluid and allowed more choices, and that those choices had more flexibility in letting you get to what you ultimately want.

* The Whole Grid Thing:  Frontier didn't eliminate the grid of the RCT games, they just allowed us to have infinite separate grid systems in the same park.  But the grid was the original reason for the distinction between the "building" and "scenery" tabs in the editor, although this distinction has been pretty much erased these days.  HOWEVER, the grid still affects coaster designing to a HUGE extent as stations can only be in increments of 4m in length, no piece of track or path can be shorter than 4m, all angle snaps for buildings, coasters, and paths are factors of 90^, and pretty much all "building" parts, whether gridded or not, are based on 4m widths and heights.

Those 3 things right there are so fundamental to everything in PC that there's no way to change them without making a whole new game. And changing them would solve most of the problems that "non-profit" (i.e., sandbox) players have with the game.

Are you accepting my wager?
-Bullethead
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Offline Kev-vink

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3324 on: October 12, 2018, 03:22 AM »
I'll admit that I have heard rumors of a PC2 in the planning stage. Just rumors. ....

If that is true I hope they actually are going to simulate a real day and night cycle with people getting in the park and out of the park. (Would also work better with Hotels). Instead of what they have now; a really short day/night cycle and always an constant stream of people in the park.

In my wildest PlanerCoaster dreams. It will simulate an whole year using an algorithm and give an graphic overview with challenges based on nearby parks that build new attractions. You could even go as far as create ratings based on your Halloween/Christmas decoration for specific seasons, that would then boost the amount of visitors in your park during that season.
It would be even better if I could design an attraction and based on the length of the track or the kind of flatride, the program would calculate when it would be able to open for the public. It would then be possible to time skip to the opening of the attraction. Or to another day that you'll have enough money to plan/build a new attraction. (offcourse if the other attraction is not opened yet, it would be shown half build)

Right now it's a great theme-park sandbox/builder. (with it's limits)
For this I would love a feature to put specific stuff inside categories like, Christmas/Halloween and so on. And I would be able to just select it and turn on or off this Christmas/Halloween decoration and so on.

Also fully agree with @Bullethead.


But I think that something like this would never happen. A man can dream.

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Offline Redhair

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3325 on: October 12, 2018, 06:16 AM »
Sims has a kind of slider which can change the duration of days. Ypu mean something like that?

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Online Bullethead

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3326 on: October 12, 2018, 07:34 AM »
If that is true I hope they actually are going to simulate a real day and night cycle with people getting in the park and out of the park. (Would also work better with Hotels). Instead of what they have now; a really short day/night cycle and always an constant stream of people in the park.

Actually, we don't really have a day/night cycle at all.  There is no in-game downtime for parks at all unless you manually shut them down.  If your park isn't set to be open 24 hours/day, the game clock merely jumps instantly from closing time to opening time without any effect on the park or anything in it.  The same thing happens on 31 October, when the game calendar instantly jumps to 1 March.  Poor peeps---Christmas never comes for them and all the festive park decorations are just a cruel hoax :).

BUT, there are very good reasons things are this way.  OT1H, the game has to let players develop the history of their park over several decades so generations of game time have to happen.  But OTOH these decades of gametime have to pass quickly enough in real time to keep the players interested and entertained, so they can see some significant progress when they only have a couple hours of real time to play.  But OTGH (anybody catch that reference?), peeps and rides still have to move at real-world speeds in terms of physical distance covered in given amounts of real time so the park looks good in the process, and players can enjoy their creations via POV camera.

This all means that peeps and the game clock must move at very different rates.  Each graphical day/night cycle in the game is actually 1 month on the game's calendar, so an in-game calendar day is like a real hour (a fraction of the day/night cycle).  Yet the peeps are still strolling around the park at what looks like normal walking speed.  In reality, they're moving in very slow motion from a real-world POV.  It takes them a week on the in-game calendar to walk from 1 side of a large park to the other, which is why parks don't actually close and empty out every "night".  If peeps instead moved at the same speed that time passes in the game, both they and the rides would be moving too fast to see except at very low time accelerations.  And at very low time accelerations, you'd never get anything done in your park because it would take pretty nearly the same number of years of real time as real parks require.

Thus, how times works in games like PC is always a compromise.  There are quite a few different ways to do it.  I think PC uses the above method because they wanted players to see their park always looking like the real world in terms of how fast things are moving in it, even at the max time acceleration, while still letting that max time acceleration move ahead enough on the calendar to give a realistic pace to adding attractions to a park as the money becomes available.  Of course, being a compromise, this solution precludes things like realistic day/night cycles, having parks actually empty out at closing time, etc.  But on the whole, it works for me.  I just set my parks to be open 24 hours/day and don't worry about it :)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 05:27 PM by Bullethead »
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Offline Fisherman

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3327 on: October 12, 2018, 04:37 PM »
So...in the Schematics Team interview with Bo Marit today, she confirmed that the Polarity ride is based on the Disney Peoplemover and includes t-junctions, 3-way hubs, and the ability for trains to move in both directions on the same track...AND a canopy that you can toggle on or off!  Sounds wonderful!
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 04:39 PM by Fisherman »

Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3328 on: October 12, 2018, 05:59 PM »
Kev-vink:   I'm usually wrong, but you may be getting ability to group holiday decorations with the free update next week.  If those categories aren't predefined, they made it sound like you could define them.

Bullethead:  I missed the reference.  Monthy Python?   I'll probably be embarrassed when you explain it.

Fisherman:  If the car itself leans more toward the generic than the sci-fi, I can see me having lots of uses for it.  That does excite me.

And Shyguy, from probably an entire page ago:  I was thinking about your rant reg. the shopping variety, and I figured that balloons and hat shops only exist because then we can see peeps carrying their purchases in the park.  Everything else falls under Just a Momento, so now I think I'll just be using that one shop over and over, even burying the building if I can.  What that shops sells is basically up to us with how we theme the shop.  (But it would be nice to have an ability to create custom items for purchase in some kind of pop up menu.  It would also be nice to have all the vendors unattached to the big 4x tall square block, which I'm sure has already been asked for by everyone.  It would also be nice to have some nice generic looking store displays and shelves, which I'm counting on the community to come up with very soon.   ;))

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Online Bullethead

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Re: Official Planet Coaster Discussion Thread
« Reply #3329 on: October 12, 2018, 06:23 PM »
So...in the Schematics Team interview with Bo Marit today, she confirmed that the Polarity ride is based on the Disney Peoplemover and includes t-junctions, 3-way hubs, and the ability for trains to move in both directions on the same track...AND a canopy that you can toggle on or off!  Sounds wonderful!

It does sound wonderful.  Ever since Frontier allowed transport rides to be ridden for entertainment only, and even to have only 1 station, this "transport ride" will be an excellent entertainment dark ride :laughing_skull:  Of course, folks might think that Disney Peoplemover cars aren't dark enough.  But if we later get the same track system with creepier cars. perhaps that can pivot like the Hoax, but which can't be used as a transport ride, will anybody complain that it doesn't count as a separate ride because it's just the same as before with different cars?  Probably :)

However, think about this.  This is the 2nd update in a row that we've gotten a new type of piece-built ride.  With the Vintage Pack, we got a grid-based track system.  With this World's Fair Pack, we get intersections and reversals on the same track.  While quite welcome, such tweaks to the existing coaster-building system don't really move the needle on overall gameplay.  Still, it shows that PC is still getting some limited developmental support.  So maybe we'll get another pack or 2 with similar limited changes despite my dire predictions above.

Still, I highly doubt we'll see anything more than this sort of thing, just at most similar tweaks to existing mechanics.  So I'm standing by my wager that we'll see no fundamental gameplay changes at all in PC.  If there are any takers, we'll have to hash out the exact terms and conditions.

@JP:  "OTGH" is "on the gripping hand".  It comes from the series of science fiction books by Jerry Pournelle and Larry Niven about humanity's 1st contact (in the far future) with intelligent aliens, the "Motey" series so-called from the 1st book, The Mote in God's Eye.  This series is a classic from my youth and has been continued by Pournelle's daughter into the present.  Anyway, the Moteys have 3 arms: 2 small, precision left arms and 1 big, brute-force right arm.  So they number their hands OT1H and OTOH on the left side, and call their right hand the gripping hand, OTGH.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 06:34 PM by Bullethead »
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