Thememakers Toolkit Discussion

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Offline Fisherman

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Re: Thememakers Toolkit Discussion
« Reply #60 on: November 23, 2018, 12:15 PM »
We're finally getting some high quality stuff on the workshop   :up:.  It's exciting!

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Offline Bullethead

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Re: Thememakers Toolkit Discussion
« Reply #61 on: November 23, 2018, 06:11 PM »
We're finally getting some high quality stuff on the workshop   :up:.  It's exciting!

So, you don't consider your own portfolio so far as "high quality" ?  Geez, I'll just go out back and shoot myself now ;)
-Bullethead
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Offline Fisherman

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Re: Thememakers Toolkit Discussion
« Reply #62 on: November 23, 2018, 07:24 PM »
ha ha ha I mean TMT stuff, silly.   :P

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Offline corkscrewloop

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Re: Thememakers Toolkit Discussion
« Reply #63 on: November 23, 2018, 11:24 PM »
I'm sure the TMT will change the game and it's community... I also decided to stop all my building projects - at the moment it feels somehow useless to me...
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 11:09 AM by corkscrewloop »
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Online shyguy

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Re: Thememakers Toolkit Discussion
« Reply #64 on: November 24, 2018, 08:19 AM »
I've added a new category to the Planet Coaster Depot for Thememaker Toolkit items. I'll be adding links to the best and most useful items there to make it easier to find quality objects without having to wade through 1000s of items of dubious quality. Feel free to add your own item links. I've also added this category to the CS Depot because that site gets a lot of people who don't visit SGW. You can upload your item links there as well.
Browse the Best of the Workshop at the Planet Coaster Depot


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Offline Old-Spice

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Re: Thememakers Toolkit Discussion
« Reply #65 on: November 24, 2018, 06:58 PM »
Ive added a few items there shy. Ill add more as I see them.

Love these lockers tho.


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Offline Fisherman

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Re: Thememakers Toolkit Discussion
« Reply #66 on: November 26, 2018, 03:05 PM »
Oh those look great!

Hey anyone have this issue?  So I open the workshop while in the game...I see a new TMTK item that looks cool, so I subscribe to it...and my game crashes.

Also, I can't for the life of me find some of the items I'm subscribed to.  Anyone having that issue?

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Online shyguy

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Re: Thememakers Toolkit Discussion
« Reply #67 on: November 26, 2018, 03:46 PM »
I haven't had any problems like that so far.
Browse the Best of the Workshop at the Planet Coaster Depot


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Online shyguy

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Re: Thememakers Toolkit Discussion
« Reply #68 on: November 27, 2018, 04:04 PM »
Some people have mentioned the fact that some TMT item files are huge. I can't find the items anywhere on my hard drive. Where are they? I need to know how big the items I'm downloading are.
Browse the Best of the Workshop at the Planet Coaster Depot


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Offline Old-Spice

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Re: Thememakers Toolkit Discussion
« Reply #69 on: November 27, 2018, 08:59 PM »
Some people have mentioned the fact that some TMT item files are huge. I can't find the items anywhere on my hard drive. Where are they? I need to know how big the items I'm downloading are.

Should be here: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\workshop\content\493340

I am trying to make something. Several days in the making, had to cheat and model it in SketchUp first as I have no idea WTF im doing in Blender. lmao


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Offline Bullethead

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Re: Thememakers Toolkit Discussion
« Reply #70 on: November 27, 2018, 09:00 PM »
Some people have mentioned the fact that some TMT item files are huge. I can't find the items anywhere on my hard drive. Where are they? I need to know how big the items I'm downloading are.

Every item's Workshop page lists the file size 1st thing, top of the right-hand column under the thumbnail pic.

I have no idea where they go when you download them, however.  They don't go into your TMT folder where you put your own stuff.
-Bullethead
NIHIL INIQVIVS QVAM ÆQVITATEM NIMIS INTENDERE
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Re: Thememakers Toolkit Discussion
« Reply #71 on: November 28, 2018, 02:06 AM »
Should be here: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\workshop\content\493340

I am trying to make something. Several days in the making, had to cheat and model it in SketchUp first as I have no idea WTF im doing in Blender. lmao



I fully sympathise! The Blender learning curve is pretty steep. I feel I've got the basics of modelling, texturing etc. down it's now just the additional small things like LOD's and transference of these to PC which is still catching me out.

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Offline cap396

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Re: Thememakers Toolkit Discussion
« Reply #72 on: November 28, 2018, 03:37 AM »
Some people have mentioned the fact that some TMT item files are huge. I can't find the items anywhere on my hard drive. Where are they? I need to know how big the items I'm downloading are.

Will placing objects with a large file size cause a drop in FPS?  I remember needing to be careful about using high-poly CS in RCT3, and am wondering if I need to filter out some of the TMT items to prevent a drop in performance.

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Offline wabigbear

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Re: Thememakers Toolkit Discussion
« Reply #73 on: November 28, 2018, 05:44 AM »
I suspect it also depends on what the items are.  If it's something fairly large that you'll see up close, and likely only use once in your park that's one thing, but if it's something you'll seldom see up close, or that you'll maybe place a dozen copies of, then I'd wonder if the large file size makes that object worthwhile.

To date I've only downloaded a couple assets from the Workshop myself, the rest just have enormous file sizes for their size or how often I'd place them no matter how good they may look.  When I see things like a rock weighing in at over 15 MB or a simple concrete post at over 3 MB, while they look nice I just can't justify setting aside the games limited resources for my park for them no matter how good they may look.

To be fair there well may be times when that rock or that concrete post are EXACTLY what you need in a certain situation, and you might decide they are worth the expenditure of those resources.  It was that way in RCT3 too.  But I still think objects created with reasonable file sizes will turn out to be far more popular and usable in the long run.

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Offline Bullethead

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Re: Thememakers Toolkit Discussion
« Reply #74 on: November 28, 2018, 05:36 PM »
I suspect it also depends on what the items are.  If it's something fairly large that you'll see up close, and likely only use once in your park that's one thing, but if it's something you'll seldom see up close, or that you'll maybe place a dozen copies of, then I'd wonder if the large file size makes that object worthwhile.

While this is good advice in general, the real problem is that most folks who've uploaded stuff so far are using most if not all of the texture budget even for extremely small, low-poly objects that in no way need so much texture resolution.  The textures is where the model file size comes from.

See, a 3D model, no matter how complex, is really just the alphanumeric data needed to locate its vertices and edges in space, say which part of which textures is applied to which face, which vertices go away at different LODs, etc.  And that's it.  It's basically a text file of instructions, a recipe if you will, for how to draw the object.  3D editors, renderers, and game engines just read these recipes and do all the heavy lifting of making the final product look nice, including applying textures, dynamic lighting, figuring out which one blocks the line of sight to those behind it, etc., to bring the model to life.  But because the model itself is essentially just a text file, it's VERY small, usually measured in kB instead of MB.  Seriously, how much space do the recipes for a Thanksgiving feast occupy compared to the 15# bird itself and all its fixings, side dishes, and deserts, not to mention the accompanying drinks?

OTOH, the full texture budget for TMT, is 2048^2 pixels, which can be divided amongst numerous separate files.  Still a single, full-color, high-def PNG file of 2048^2 can easily be 8-10 MB.  That's where all the fat in user-made parts comes from, right there.  And that hits your texture memory, which is different from your other various types of memory, and it all has to be loaded at once and blended into its surroundings properly, which hits your GPU.

I can't imagine a properly made, simple, 1m-or-less object, texture and all, being more than 1MB and I'd be highly suspect if it was even half that much.  I used to make skins for highly detailed aircraft models and only had 768- or 1024-square pixels to work with, but I managed to do it, rivets (including shadow effects) and all, and they looked great even if my monitor had a much higher resolution.  There is no reason short of sheer incompetence, and certainly no good reason at all, that a 1m or smaller object should weigh even 1 MB.  Anything pushing the 8-10MB limit had better be the friggin' Taj Mahal reduced to fit in an 8m cube, which is the biggest thing we can make.  Compare that to the size of a WW2 4-engined bomber which was about 30m on its long axes.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 08:08 PM by Bullethead »
-Bullethead
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Offline Old-Spice

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Re: Thememakers Toolkit Discussion
« Reply #75 on: November 29, 2018, 05:59 PM »
Its really all in how someone saves their PNG file. I use Paint.NET and that allows me to Adjust the file size. One can easily turn a 6MB 2048x texture down to 1MB. Even less if there's not too much gradient.

5.8MB: 32-bit image
1MB: 8-bit

But seriously, unless your facef&%king the object, you don't need a 2048x texture.

There's a 10MB tiny vase... 10MB Wooden floor tile.

There really needs to be a proper guide put out. I would make one, but I don't have the time, not patience that I used to. Was rear ended in a car accident almost 2 years ago, so days consist mostly of work and sleep.

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Offline Bullethead

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Re: Thememakers Toolkit Discussion
« Reply #76 on: November 29, 2018, 08:54 PM »
Its really all in how someone saves their PNG file. I use Paint.NET and that allows me to Adjust the file size. One can easily turn a 6MB 2048x texture down to 1MB. Even less if there's not too much gradient.

That's true.  It's also frequently the case that game engines blur textures a bit on purpose, specifically to reduce the size of the texture needed that still doesn't pixelate along color boundaries and diagonal lines, even when viewed up close.  And because of this built-in blurring, not only can relatively large objects look just fine with relatively small textures, but texture resolution above a certain point is completely wasted.  The very fine details in high-res textures, such as having a dozen or more rows of pixels on each side of a thin diagonal line to do the anti-aliasing so you can't see the stair-step pattern it really is, all get smeared together by the game engine.  As a result, you can usually get by just fine with 1 row of anti-aliasing pixels on each side of a 1-pixel-wide diagonal line.

NOTE:  For them as don't know, anti-aliasing on textures is completely separate from, and unaffected by, the anti-aliasing game graphic setting.  That setting only affects how jagged the edges are of 3D objects and their shadows.  Texture anti-aliasing drawn onto the texture itself.  It is the use of rows of pixels along a color gradient to fool the eye into thinking that what is really a stairstep arrangement of discrete pixels in a grid pattern is really a smooth curve or diagonal line.  Higher resolutions (i.e., larger texture sizes) allow using more rows of pixels for texture anti-aliasing because, for an object of a given size, the larger the texture, the more pixels per square inch of its surface area.  But if the game engine deliberately blurs the texture, all those high-res extra anti-aliasing pixels are are smeared together and wasted.

Perhaps somebody can do an experiment to see how much blurring the PC game engine provides, and thus determine how much texture anti-aliasing is really needed.  My money's on it not needing more than 1 row each side.  IOW, a diagonal line that you want to be 1 pixel wide would only need to be 3 pixels wide on the texture, a central 1 for the base color and 1 each side in gradients into that color.  If this is the case, then you can paint really large areas (considering no object can be more than 8m in any direction) with small textures, and the only reason to use the full budget is if you have a LOT of materials (each needing its own texture) AND the object has lots of discrete areas of different colors, each of which needs a color swatch on the main texture, so consumes area.

-Bullethead
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Offline Salad Fries

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Re: Thememakers Toolkit Discussion
« Reply #77 on: January 02, 2019, 02:51 PM »
I know this is probably a stupid question & that the answer is likely a hard NO, but does anyone know if its possible to create billboards or signs (like the ones with editable text) with the TMT?

I've been searching for a good hour & haven't really found a definitive yes or no. Just wanted to see if anyone knew off hand if it was possible or not

Re: Thememakers Toolkit Discussion
« Reply #78 on: January 02, 2019, 04:22 PM »
I know this is probably a stupid question & that the answer is likely a hard NO, but does anyone know if its possible to create billboards or signs (like the ones with editable text) with the TMT?

I've been searching for a good hour & haven't really found a definitive yes or no. Just wanted to see if anyone knew off hand if it was possible or not
HARD NO!!!!  ::) Honestly I have no clue, but I would say probably not.

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Offline Salad Fries

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Re: Thememakers Toolkit Discussion
« Reply #79 on: January 02, 2019, 05:36 PM »
Thanks! I figured that was the case due to the fact that there are none on the workshop, but just wanted to confirm since it isn't explicitly stated anywhere.