Peony Park II - Jobbers Canyon [video]

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Offline Berlin87

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Re: Peony Park II - Signage. That's all.
« Reply #150 on: May 13, 2019, 06:54 AM »
I really like how colourful this project is, and how you keep adding new ideas to an already mind-blowing park.  Haven't nocied the world theater before, it reminds me of Berlin's Friedrichstadt Palast. Really good eye for scale.
Also: In-laid windows… always +1

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Offline corkscrewloop

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Re: Peony Park II - Signage. That's all.
« Reply #151 on: May 14, 2019, 05:24 AM »
Was away for a few days... Man all those new pictures are just mindblowing! This park is so fantastic... and the amount of detailed unique rides and scenery astounds me everytime I see new pics of this amazing project!
My Workshop: Steam Workshop

Re: Peony Park II - Signage. That's all.
« Reply #152 on: May 15, 2019, 08:01 AM »
Some sort of "Sideshow" seems to fit what you've done with the ZL42.  But yeah, protect the light trailers not the peeps.  An actual fence around the water side of the pier might hide the ride too much, though.  That might be a good thing on the balance, but you've pimped it out too much to let that go without a fight.

I added some non-obtrusive chain link around the coaster pier, the spotlights are now safe from collapsing into the lagoon.  And I think I've settled on "Fire Eater" for the coaster name, because, well, circus.   And fire.  I'm not clever.

You always amaze me, my friend.
Every update is like a really indulgent cake with many layers. You feel full after looking at them. I can't ever believe how much you put into everything that you do. There is so much detail and every time you look at a picture, you see something you didn't see before. And quite frankly, I can't get enough.

Thank you as always.  This much detail does come at a price, sadly.  Construction has slowed down greatly while I try to investigate some kind of hardware solution that will let me grow this park some more.   :(

I really like how colourful this project is, and how you keep adding new ideas to an already mind-blowing park.  Haven't nocied the world theater before, it reminds me of Berlin's Friedrichstadt Palast. Really good eye for scale.
Also: In-laid windows… always +1

Thank you Berlin.  That World Theater (also formerly called "The Omaha") is definitely one of the better looking buildings from this city's past.  It ended up surviving quite a long time too, but went into some serious decay toward the end.  I can see why they bulldozed it but I wish they could've come up with a more creative solution.

Was away for a few days... Man all those new pictures are just mindblowing! This park is so fantastic... and the amount of detailed unique rides and scenery astounds me everytime I see new pics of this amazing project!

Thanks CSL.  I think the final ride tally comes in at around 7 coasters, 3 tracked rides and about 20-something odd flat rides.  It's fairly close to where I hoped that number would be, but since most of the coasters are small it does feel kind of lacking in that department.

----------------

I'm not doing much building in the park lately...  I don't want to start up any of the phase III stuff and I'm running out of ideas for things to do with the first two phases.  (I also don't want to start a new park until this one is done because I have a tendency to wipe out save files, even when I try really hard not to :P)...   To top that off, I also don't really want to film the last 2 POV's with the current framerate, so I feel like my gaming life is on hold.  On that note, I do want to post my computer specs at the end of this update to see if any of you much-smarter-than-me people think that I'd be able to benefit from an upgrade.

Meanwhile, I'll stall for time this week with photos of things I hope I haven't shown before.    A couple weeks back I worked out a solution for the pathing necessary to make the drop tower a functional ride.  Kind of a challenge since it's a flat ride sitting on top of another flat ride and I didn't want to get crazy with super-high catwalks.

Not a great photo (still need to do some more work hiding the elevated paths)... for now mostly you just see that I raised the ground up behind the courthouse so that the paths wouldn't all seem so high in the air.    This created a train tunnel here in the back of the park which added some interest to that ride.





I think I broke one of my theming rules with the Hotel Morris...  it seems that part of that building might still be standing today.  If true, nearly a third of the building is missing and it's entirely white.  I'm not convinced it's the same building



^^Then.



^^Now (but only the left side of the building.)  And honestly, I don't think it's the same building.  The camera angles don't match up.  Possibly a mislabeled photo on the web.

My version:



A coffee shop, the Mandarin Cafe, and Tracy Bros. Goods, which would probably be some kind of novelty shop in this park.



And not sure if I showed the Empress Theatre before...  This one is probably the one theater re-creation in this park that will actually be some kind of theater.  In other words, there's nothing inside.



ok, so here's my specs:

Intel i7-6700 @3.4 GHz
16G ram
video card is Radeon RX480, core clock of 1266 MHz

and here's what I'm finding when I look at current computers, as well as "ideal" PlanCo specs...
the i7 thing should be good for this game
16 of ram should be good also, I can go higher but not sure if that would matter.
and the 3.4 GHz doesn't seem to go too much higher, at least not in terms of something I'd find in a store.

Would an upgrade to an i7-8700 make much difference, or is that "8700" kind of an arbitrary version thing?  (I noticed the 8700 actually has a lower speed than 3.4GHz)
And let's say I could increase the processor speed to 3.6 or more, how high would I have to make that number in order to notice a difference?
Are there any other specs I should be aware of when purchasing a gaming computer?

Basically I don't want to spend 2k or more on a new computer with slightly bigger specs only to find out that it's not going to make barely a bit of difference to my framerate.  My current model is only a couple years old and it works fine, just not so well for somebody who likes to build big things in planet coaster and cities skylines. 

Any help is appreciated, thanks :)
 




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Offline Bullethead

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Re: Peony Park II - Newish pictures, and some specs questions
« Reply #153 on: May 15, 2019, 09:32 AM »
That looks great, JP!  That train-and-path fix is so good it looks like you planned it that way to start with :).  And the shops and theater are fantastic.  How do you not only think up such things but actually build them so well?

As to the Hotel Morris...   That's a tough call even after I did some digital sleuthing to help you out.  I came up with this other postcard, which crucially includes the address of the original building:  18th and Dodge.

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-morris-apartment-hotel-18th-and-dodge-sts-omaha-nebraska-131021790.html

So, then I brought up Google Maps and went to 18th and Dodge in streetview.  This is a T intersection with Dodge running uphill from E-W and 18th running downhill to the N from the intersection.  There are thus 2 locations the Morris could have been, the NW and the NE corner. 

Now, the reason this is a T intersection is because the plaza of the modern federal courthouse blocks 18th, dividing it into N 18th (which intersects Dodge) and S 18th on the other side of the plaza (which intersects Douglas).  Maybe back in the 1930s, 18th ran straight through, which would mean there were 4 corner lots.  However, the way the facade of the Morris is lit up in the postcard means it was facing south on one of the north corners.  Either that, or the lighting got "postcardshopped".

The postcard I found is of a building on the NE corner.  Note the traffic lights indicating this is a major intersection.  Also, the road down the long side of the building goes downhill, just like 18th.  Today, this lot is occupied by a modern parking garage.  So, at 1st glance, it seems the Morris is no more.

HOWEVER, there are some problems with this interpretation.  First, the postcard shows the street in front of the building, presumably Dodge, level in front of the building and dropping onto (presumably 18th) as it turns the corner.  This doesn't match the modern topography.  Nowadays, the intersection itself is level and Dodge comes up to across the front of the lot, then continues going up in the next block to the west.

Even more damaging to this interpretation, though, is that my postcard show a large building behind the Morris.  Problem is, if this postcard is looking along 18th, is that this is the site of the Whiskeypalian cathedral.  And the cathedral's website says it's been there (at 18th and Capitol) since 1883.  So, if my postcard was really made by tinting a photograph from the 1930s, it should show the cathedral, not the skyscraper, in this location.  Thus, either the Morris was NOT on the NE corner of 18th and Dodge, or the postcard was "postcardshopped" to have a different background slipped in.

Now for the NW corner.  This is the actual location of the derelict building in your photo, so it does have that going for it.  However, the satellite view shows this is actually 2 separate buildings, which you could guess from the different facades across the existing structure, the whole making a U shape instead of a solid block.  There are some architectural similarities between this/these buildings and the Morris (especially the western half) , but there are at least as many differences.  Most notably, the large unpainted area on the west wall showing the outline of a now-demolished structure, the lot of which is now a parking lot.  It never seems to have been a street as shown in the postcards,  However, my postcard does show a building adjoining the Morris on the "Dodge" side, which might kinda match the unpainted area of the west wall of this derelict building.  Also, there's no Whiskeypalian cathedral to worry about on the NW corner.

The problem with all this being the Morris, however, is that it only matches the topography of the postcards if the postcards are mirrored from reality.  IOW, while the postcards show what appears to be the NE corner, the actual building was on the NW corner.  In which case, the derelict, or least least its western part, could be the partial remains of the Morris, even though the top-down view makes this unlikely.

It's possible that the Morris sent the developed film strip of a photo off to a postcard publisher, who put the film in its projector backwards.  However, this would have been immediately obvious as the text of the signs would have been mirrored.  Of course, then the print was hand-tinted so this could just have been painted over.  And this would have had to have happened twice, as your postcard and mine were based on different photos.  In any case, making the postcards match the NW corner takes at least as much "postcardshopping" as the NE corner.

Bottom Line:
So, we have 4 possible locations for the Morris, all of which would have required some amount of "postcardshopping" to go from an actual photo to the postcards we have today. 

  • SW and SE corners:  If these corners existed in the 1930s prior to the construction of the modern federal courthourse, they and any buildings on them no longer exist.  If the Morris had been in either of these locations, the postcard would have needed the lighting changed.
  • NE corner:  My personal favorite as it seems to be the simplest.  Now the site of a parking garage.  However, this requires replacing the whole background of the original photo to eliminate the Whiskeypalian cathedral.
  • NW corner:  Holds out the possibility that a small fragment of the Morris still stands after a long history of modifications and the construction and demolition of adjoining buildings.  Requires mirror-imaging the original photo and correcting the text to make the postcards.
-Bullethead
NIHIL INIQVIVS QVAM ÆQVITATEM NIMIS INTENDERE
My Steam Workshop page

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Offline Bullethead

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Re: Peony Park II - Newish pictures, and some specs questions
« Reply #154 on: May 15, 2019, 10:03 AM »
EUREKA!!!

Not being satisfied with any of the above scenarios, I went back to digging around and found this 1929 real estate map of downtown Omaha, which shows the names of all businesses at 18th and Dodge:

https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~310540~90080158:Omaha--Nebraska--?sort=pub_list_no_initialsort%2Cpub_date%2Cpub_list_no%2Cseries_no&qvq=q:omaha%2C%20nebraska;sort:pub_list_no_initialsort%2Cpub_date%2Cpub_list_no%2Cseries_no;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=2&trs=31

Zoom way in along the top edge near the left corner and you'll find the intersection of 18th and Dodge.  There's a "Morris Apartments" shown on the SE corner.

So, mystery solved.  The Hotel Morris Apartments were on the SE corner, because in 1929 18th street went straight through town without being interrupted by the federal courthouse plaza.  So you're safe.  Not only is the Morris itself totally gone but so is the corner lot it used to stand on.  The derelict building in your photo was the Logan Hotel Apartments (with a small crazyhouse on the ground floor :D).

Now, going back to my postcard:  https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-morris-apartment-hotel-18th-and-dodge-sts-omaha-nebraska-131021790.html

The long side of the building runs along Dodge, so you're looking downhill to the east that way.  And the skyscraper in the background is probably the federal reserve bank.  The narrow side of the building faces the part of 18th now buried under the courthouse plaza.  This facade faces west, the original photo was taken in the afternoon so it's illuminated, and the long side is dark because it's the north side.  And all this done without any need for "postcardshopping".

My google-fu is strong ;)

-Bullethead
NIHIL INIQVIVS QVAM ÆQVITATEM NIMIS INTENDERE
My Steam Workshop page

Re: Peony Park II - Newish pictures, and some specs questions
« Reply #155 on: May 15, 2019, 11:00 AM »
this is unbelievable research. I continue to be amazed of just about anything you can find online. think about if you were trying to answer this question over a landline phone 20 years ago.

Re: Peony Park II - Newish pictures, and some specs questions
« Reply #156 on: May 15, 2019, 11:37 AM »
Great work, Bullethead!

In your first post, I pretty much found all of the same information, even using the google maps.  But I was not sure which corner it was on, and like you said, the actual "corner" of the building was not facing the right direction.  You are correct about the Logan Hotel; the label on the newer picture I posted listed both buildings even though the original photo of the Morris shows it not connected to other structures. 

Now, since both of the original pictures (including the one you linked that I did not post) appear to be artist renderings, it was possible that some creative liberties were taken with the background and the street intersection.  But it wasn't adding up, because even if former windows had been bricked over you would expect to see signs of that work, like newer bricks or mismatched grout lines or something.  Now that you found the correct corner for the (now demolished) building, mystery solved and I thank you.   I can go back to my original statement that the Sunset Tea Room is the only re-creation in this park that is still standing. 

I stumbled upon the Morris photos towards the end of my research after much of the park had been built, it's just not as "famous" as the structures I started with so the research material was much more limited.  Aside from not wanting to put anything in this park that was still standing, I would've been even more disappointed if the original Morris was actually still there and I'd never noticed it after living downtown for over a decade.    It's not as pretty as a lot of the ones I've posted, but I think it would still stand out in the current landscape of... um, crap buildings, hehe.

------

If anybody else was remotely interested in reading all of that, the next post I want to make is for the Jobbers Canyon dark ride, which celebrates an entire historical warehouse district that was torn down for a corporate campus in the late 80's, over 20 buildings.  It remains the largest demolition of a historic district in the U.S. to this day. 

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Offline Bullethead

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Re: Peony Park II - Newish pictures, and some specs questions
« Reply #157 on: May 15, 2019, 02:39 PM »
this is unbelievable research. I continue to be amazed of just about anything you can find online. think about if you were trying to answer this question over a landline phone 20 years ago.

Thanks :).  It does help to have had to do this sort of thing a lot before (genealogy, archaeology, fire investigation, and title searches) so I could put in search terms that led more towards the goal than not, but yeah, the info now accessible in just a few clicks is truly mind-blowing.  And scary.  I'm pretty much convinced there's absolutely no way to prevent identity theft so just get insurance.  One more bill.....  Why can't folks just use the internet for porn like we intended when we built it? :D

Great work, Bullethead!

Thanks!  I enjoy such puzzles. 

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You are correct about the Logan Hotel; the label on the newer picture I posted listed both buildings even though the original photo of the Morris shows it not connected to other structures.

That postcard you showed above has no background at all, either.  Totally "postcardshopped" :P

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Now, since both of the original pictures (including the one you linked that I did not post) appear to be artist renderings, it was possible that some creative liberties were taken with the background and the street intersection.

As I understand things, the industry of such postcards evolved from the camera obscura technique invented in the Renaissance.  With this, artists could trace the exact outlines of real scenes, then paint in the color and all the shading with their artistic talents.  The result was an actual painting but with photo-like realism as to shape and proportion.  After the actual (photographic) camera was invented in the early 1800s, the glass plates or (later) translucent film could be projected onto a screen, so the same artistic technique continued without the inconveniences of the camera obscura's images being upside down and backwards.  This is how the vast majority of photo-realistic color postcards from the late 1800s to mid-1900s were made. 

And because (photographic) cameras increased in number through this period at about the same rate per capita as PCs and smartphones within our own lifetimes, the number of images increased and an industry developed to turn the sepia and/or B&W photos into color prints.  And businesses were as much into advertising via social media back then as now, it's just that social media were less-capable back then.  So they'd take the best-possible photo of their establishment, send it off to a photo-tinter (as in projected-image-tracer-and-colorizer), and turn it into postcards, which patrons could "share" via the US Mail with their friends.

So, OT1H, the postcards are were intended to be accurate portrayals of the subject, so that new customers could find the place without Google Maps.  But OTOH, of course the businesses wanted to emphasize their good and minimize their bad features, while still being truthful enough to avoid legal problems over false advertising.  Given that the postcard was hand-painted, much could be "postcardshopped".  Yet OTGH, the artist making the color postcard probably had never laid his own eyes on the real thing so was largely bound by the original photo supplied by the customer.

Thus, your postcard has the Morris in complete isolation, All surroundings and background have been oversprayed in black and only the outline of the building itself is visible.  This was based on a different photo than the postcard I linked because the angle of the Morris is slightly different.  There's a central structure on the roof which intersects the front facade parapet at different places between them.  And in the postcard I linked, you can see the background and surroundings.  The derelict Logan only features in this story because the different photos from which the postcards were based were set up in front of it, on Dodge looking SE at the Morris.

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It remains the largest demolition of a historic district in the U.S. to this day.

That's AWESOME!!  Think about it...  Omaha is pretty much the center of what most folks today call "fly-over country".  That you ever had enough stuff there to tear down in such volume speaks wonders.  Especially from the POV of where I live.  If you draw lines between every single important place in the world, from regional centers to global entrepôts, exactly ZERO of them pass over my bailiwick.  Even though we once had the biggest port on the Mississippi River between New Orleans and Natchez (as in bigger than Baton Rouge at the time), washed away by The River itself at a time only just now leaving living memory.  But that entire city is as absent from the online historical record as it is from its own site today, which you can only visit it by boat.

I myself am not a huge fan of preserving historical structures.  Since the Neolithic, people have been forced to live in the specific places best suited for growing crops.  Successive generations have always found the structures of their ancestors in the way of making their own living, so have always torn them down or plowed them under.  So why should that change now, when the global demand for food has never been higher?  Sure, save a few special things as mementos of the past, but don't go overboard with it.  Especially as nothing built even 4 years ago is up to modern fire codes :).
-Bullethead
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Re: Peony Park II - Newish pictures, and some specs questions
« Reply #158 on: May 15, 2019, 03:31 PM »
You're right about "flyover country" and any of the other less-kind things that are often said about it. ["Glorified Cow Town" is one of my favorites :)] But before I started this park and in looking at old photos (mostly 1920s) it was a city that once visually appeared to rival a pre-skyscraper New York.  And 1920 would be about the time that both cities went in completely different directions (growth vs. anti-growth.) 

We've shot ourselves in the foot at every given opportunity.  One of the buildings in the park (the tallest I think) is the original Woodmen of the World building.  By the late 1960s when they needed more space they built the city's first skyscraper at 30 stories.  The new tower replaced the original City Hall and the Omaha Bee building, both of which are in this park.  At the time it was built, they somehow worked out a deal with the city that nothing taller could be built within the city for 30 years, and sure enough the city honored that.  30 years later the 2nd and only other "skyscraper" was built, just a few floors taller.  To date, they are the only 2 towers in the Omaha skyline.  Which is to say that unlike any other American city of this size, we still have no skyline.



[^^The 2nd tower is visible in the background.  And, we do have some success stories:  Just beyond the Woodmen tower in that photo is the Omaha National Bank building, built in 1888 and still standing!]

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I myself am not a huge fan of preserving historical structures.  Since the Neolithic, people have been forced to live in the specific places best suited for growing crops.  Successive generations have always found the structures of their ancestors in the way of making their own living, so have always torn them down or plowed them under.  So why should that change now, when the global demand for food has never been higher?  Sure, save a few special things as mementos of the past, but don't go overboard with it.  Especially as nothing built even 4 years ago is up to modern fire codes :).

Not sure where in my life I got all hung up on architectural preservation; maybe all the years of living downtown and seeing all the pictures of how it looked prior.  Just seems like the old saying of "they don't build them like they used to."  Hopefully the pictures in this thread are showing that.  I haven't often shown what these buildings were replaced with, but since you did a little google map research today you've basically seen what we're working with.  In many cases the buildings were replaced with shorter, smaller buildings, so if conserving space was an issue, you wouldn't know it by looking at these little 4 story office buildings and cookie cutter condos in our current downtown.  And also, if this state has anything, it's an
overabundance of land for growing food.  What we don't have is much in the way of beautiful turn-of-the-century architecture.  :(




« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 03:40 PM by JPAlmighT »

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Offline Bullethead

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Re: Peony Park II - Newish pictures, and some specs questions
« Reply #159 on: May 15, 2019, 06:47 PM »
We've shot ourselves in the foot at every given opportunity.  One of the buildings in the park (the tallest I think) is the original Woodmen of the World building.  By the late 1960s when they needed more space they built the city's first skyscraper at 30 stories.  The new tower replaced the original City Hall and the Omaha Bee building, both of which are in this park.  At the time it was built, they somehow worked out a deal with the city that nothing taller could be built within the city for 30 years, and sure enough the city honored that.  30 years later the 2nd and only other "skyscraper" was built, just a few floors taller.  To date, they are the only 2 towers in the Omaha skyline.  Which is to say that unlike any other American city of this size, we still have no skyline.

Wow, I had no idea the Woodmen were still a thing.  I've seen their old stacked-log tombstones (especially in Central Texas) but nothing since like 1930.

But look, where I live, we have an ordinance limiting all buildings to a height of no more than 30 feet at the eave.  This is the highest we can reach with the 35' ground ladders on our fire trucks.  If we have anything taller, we'll have to buy several aerial ladder trucks like big cities have, and those cost well north of $1M each, not to mention retraining all our firemen to operate such things.  The current tax base can't support this and, as there's no future economic boom looming over this benighted area, there's no chance of the tax base growing from the construction of 1 such building.  So until there's a real need to build upwards, our political masters are keeping things close to ground level.

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Not sure where in my life I got all hung up on architectural preservation; maybe all the years of living downtown and seeing all the pictures of how it looked prior.  Just seems like the old saying of "they don't build them like they used to."  Hopefully the pictures in this thread are showing that.  I haven't often shown what these buildings were replaced with, but since you did a little google map research today you've basically seen what we're working with.  In many cases the buildings were replaced with shorter, smaller buildings, so if conserving space was an issue, you wouldn't know it by looking at these little 4 story office buildings and cookie cutter condos in our current downtown.  And also, if this state has anything, it's an overabundance of land for growing food.  What we don't have is much in the way of beautiful turn-of-the-century architecture.  :(

America at the turn of the last century was basically the long-established East Coast, the slightly younger cities along the coasts of the Great Lakes and Gulf of Mexico, the relatively new boomtowns on the West Coast, and not much else.  In between, like where Omaha is, you still had a few buffalo and unconquered Indians but otherwise mostly just railroad towns connecting the 4 coasts and collecting the resources they needed from the farms, ranches, and mines in between.  America is a VERY young country and most of it accumulated in just a few generations.  A person who crossed the prairie as a baby in covered wagon could watch a TV documentary about it in his old age, still living in his own house in a town that hadn't even existed when he was born.  And the pattern set then is still with us today.

So, from that perspective, the only truly historical architecture in the Americas, old enough to rival or even surpass in age the historical stuff of the Old World, was all built by the Indians.  And except for the Pueblo folks in the Southwest, none of the North American Indians had much desire to build in stone.  Thus, about all that remains visible of their works north of the Rio Grande are piles of dirt, and even that is mostly east of the Mississippi.  The thing is, these mounds were usually on the best farmland around so the Euro settlers, who were mostly pre-Industrial farmers themselves, thought the same spots were desirable and the mounds were impediments to their plows.  Hence, most of the major mound centers were plowed under. and/or used as fill dirt in surrounding low areas, to increase the land under the plow.  It's really amazing we have as many mounds left as we do.  And this is without considering any other aspects of the wholesale replacement of Indians by Euros, but just looking at it from the perspective of some poor Iron Age farmer schmuck born in unfavorable circumstances somewhere east of Omaha and wanting to become self-sufficient with his own "3 acres and a cow".
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 06:50 PM by Bullethead »
-Bullethead
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Re: Peony Park II - Newish pictures, and some specs questions
« Reply #160 on: May 22, 2019, 07:21 AM »
As promised/threatened, here's a video for my Jobbers Canyon "dark " ride.  "Dark" is in quotes because about half of this takes place outdoors.

First, a hopefully brief history:  Jobbers Canyon was an industrial warehouse district in downtown Omaha dating back to the 1920s.  The buildings weren't grand or overly ornate, about 20-ish brick boxes, but each was unique and built in a time when even buildings like this had architectural detail that you wouldn't see on a modern comparison.

Back in the late 1980's, a major corporate employer in town who shall remain nameless [ConAgra] decided that they wanted to build a new corporate campus downtown on the site of Jobbers Canyon.  They weren't interested in the buildings, just the land.  There was much hoopla and protest, as by this time the mostly abandoned district had been declared Historical.  Cutting to the chase, ConAgra won the battle and tore it all down, and to this date it remains the largest demolition of a historical district in the United States, ever.

Adding insult to injury, in 2016 ConAgra decided to move their headquarters to Chicago, taking all the jobs with it and leaving their unremarkable campus behind.  The city is still struggling to decide what to do with the land, but Jobbers Canyon is gone forever.

The real life photos:









This is what Conagra built in place of Jobbers Canyon:



The actual site was about 5-6 city blocks, I had much less land than that in my park.  And while most of the actual location was your basic grid-based street layout, I took some liberties with that as well.  Trains did have direct warehouse access, and there were some winding alleys as shown above.  The Hotel Fontenelle was a couple blocks away from all of this so there is no logical explanation why your carriage takes a detour through their lobby in this ride.  It's a quiet little 3 minute ride without a grand finale, but only slightly better than my original carriage concept of a lovely jaunt through the flowers.

Cameos in this attraction include animatronic "smoking Billy's" which only makes sense if you followed my original Peony Park thread, as well as some glimpses of Nemmie's fantastic construction vehicles.

Last caveat:  Seems Microsoft has taken away WindowsMovieMaker and replaced it with a very friendly but far less functional substitute, of which I'm still trying to figure out. 

Here is Jobbers Canyon:

« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 07:24 AM by JPAlmighT »

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Re: Peony Park II - Jobbers Canyon [video]
« Reply #161 on: May 22, 2019, 11:41 AM »
Wow, that's a great "trip down memory lane" sort of ride!  The whole story told in little vignettes.  The protest, how it was originally, how it was derelict, then being demolished.  Love how you actually found a use for pendulum trap, as a wrecking ball :).  And then, the last bit looks a bit like what replaced Jobbers' Canyon.  Very nicely done.

You seem to feel quite strongly about the fate of this area.  But maybe I can offer some perspective to cheer you up...

Where I live, there's an old school building from like 1920 that's been disused, but still owned by the school board, since about 1960.  It's a large, 3-story brick thing with the typical look of such things and entrance up a flight of exterior stairs.  Folks of my parents' generation, who actually went there, have been wanting to refurbish it and turn it into a museum.  They have a foundation for that, and the foundation periodically cleans the place up, even though they don't own it.  And they have lots of money.  Yet nothing's ever happened to refurb the place or do really anything with it other than pressurewashijng the exterior and keeping the jungle from swallowing it.

This is because it would cost WAY too much, inflict WAY too much damage on the beautiful interior woodwork, and take up too much interior space to bring it up to modern codes, which is necessary to open it to the public.  There are some limited exceptions for historic buildings, but they don't come anywhere close enough to solve these problems.   You're talking covering all the wood with sheetrock, installing a sprinkler system and central air, adding fire-resistive stairwells and an elevator, adding restrooms on each floor, widening most of the doors and replacing all their knobs, eliminating transom windows throughout, creating a bunch of ground-level entrances and exits, AND removing all the asbestos.  So basically, total interior demolition and substantial changes to the exterior.  It's either that or knock it down and build something up to code from scratch, which would actually be cheaper than refurbishing the old building.  But nobody wants to do either because "preservation".

So there the building sits, gradually falling more into decay as the roof leaks and stuff rots away from lack of maintenance.  And the fire insurance companies still take it into account when setting rates for those in the town, so it's costing all the voters money every single day.  Meanwhile only a rapidly diminishing number of geriatrics care about the building.  The building probably only continues to exist out of respect for them.  They'll be gone in a few years and then I'm sure the place will be demolished.  Which is something of a shame as it's a beautiful old building.  However, it's completely impractical to ever put it out in public again, so it might as well already be gone.  Besides, 99.9999% of the world's population don't know it exits and wouldn't be interested in seeing it anyway.

But that's the circle of life, same for people and buildings alike.  They have their day, then they become burdens to society with no way back.  Eventually they become dust, replaced by a new generation.  That is the way the universe is intended to function--not even stars and galaxies are immune.  When seen this way, trying to stop this process is just wrong, no matter how much sentimental attachment you have to whatever's reaching the end of its life.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 03:29 PM by Bullethead »
-Bullethead
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Offline shyguy

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Re: Peony Park II - Jobbers Canyon [video]
« Reply #162 on: May 22, 2019, 01:39 PM »
A very unique concept for a ride. The attention to detail is extraordinary, as is usual for all your projects. I'm not sure if those peeps appreciated you driving through their hotel lobby  :P (I'm guessing that's what that was).
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Re: Peony Park II - Jobbers Canyon [video]
« Reply #163 on: May 22, 2019, 02:12 PM »
SG:  Nope, nothing logical about taking that shortcut through the lobby.  The damage those carriages must be doing to the marble floors must be extraordinary.  And the way the hotel staff just stand around watching all this happen...  the piano player doesn't even stop playing.   :confused:

BH:  You certainly caught on to the anachronisms, but I'm glad you picked up what each vignette was representing in my mind...  I just ordered them quite poorly.  There's definitely some (initially unintentional) time traveling in this ride.  If I had moved the "save the canyon" sign to the end of the ride they would have at least been in chronological order.  [Kind of, once you enter the Hotel the remainder of the ride puts you back in the timeframe of the entire park, so back to the 1920's again.  Including the train yard and the buildings around it.]  It's a lot of ridiculous overexplaining on my part just to stick a quick wrecking ball into a scene; without it I could've ditched the opening sign and let the whole ride take place 100 years ago.   :whistling:

As for our differing opinions on historic architecture, I can at least say that I personally had no sentimental attachment to the Canyon.  All of this happened before I lived here.  I did have the pleasure of living downtown for over a decade and was fortunate enough to live in three separate former factories [not in the Canyon] that had been preserved and restored into apartments.  I imagine the same would have happened for Jobbers Canyon, eventually.  As mentioned previously, we do have many success stories with how many old buildings remarkably still stand.  I miss living downtown sometimes, walking along some of the back streets and alleys with the initial brick pavers and streetcar rails still intact.  But I did regret how much grander it all could've been, and was, before I lived there.

My biggest problem here is that all of that history was destroyed only to be replaced with something no more architecturally significant than a strip mall, and then abandoned a mere 20 years later.  For the amount of office space created in the one and two story campus that they built, they could've moved their entire headquarters into two or three of the existing buildings and still had room to spare.   Or they could've built a high rise, which I'd have also been at least somewhat ok with.  Or, because Omaha is neither coastal nor unbuildable swamp land, they could have literally built their campus ANYWHERE ELSE in the entire city, like empty farmland on the outskirts.

Final footnote:  In the first photo above is a quote from one of the ConAgra execs at the time of the demolition, referring to the Canyon as "big, ugly red brick buildings."  Here is a photo of their new corporate headquarters, now in Chicago:



Built in 1930, ConAgra now occupies part of the 13th floor.






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Offline JB

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Re: Peony Park II - Jobbers Canyon [video]
« Reply #164 on: May 22, 2019, 02:50 PM »
Like BH said (before I got all depressed reading his 'ashes to ashes, dust to dust' philosophy :P), I like how you told the whole story of this district: We see the steam locomotives/vehicles; turn a corner and we see papers blowing in the wind; turn another corner and we see a wrecking ball... But then we get to see that elegant hotel lobby in all its glory. It may not be logical going through the lobby, but it was grand, and fun.

Star Trek's holodeck technology should have been invented a hundred years ago (or more). That way we could have recorded, and experienced, all the old architecture that no longer exists- or as BH reminds us, is no longer practical to restore.

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Offline Nemmie

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Re: Peony Park II - Jobbers Canyon [video]
« Reply #165 on: May 22, 2019, 04:37 PM »
Jobbers Canyon was great. I always find myself when I watch your videos, trying to shove my head inside the screen so I can look round as there is so much detail crammed into every little space. The hotel lobby looked even more impressive in the video than it did on the shots and I thought the ancient trap wrecking ball was genius. And talking about wrecking ball, did you get that version of the song from the elevator in the lobby ;)
Excellent work, my friend.

Re: Peony Park II - Jobbers Canyon [video]
« Reply #166 on: May 22, 2019, 05:55 PM »
SG:  Nope, nothing logical about taking that shortcut through the lobby.  The damage those carriages must be doing to the marble floors must be extraordinary.  And the way the hotel staff just stand around watching all this happen...  the piano player doesn't even stop playing.   :confused:

BH:  You certainly caught on to the anachronisms, but I'm glad you picked up what each vignette was representing in my mind...  I just ordered them quite poorly.  There's definitely some (initially unintentional) time traveling in this ride.  If I had moved the "save the canyon" sign to the end of the ride they would have at least been in chronological order.  [Kind of, once you enter the Hotel the remainder of the ride puts you back in the timeframe of the entire park, so back to the 1920's again.  Including the train yard and the buildings around it.]  It's a lot of ridiculous overexplaining on my part just to stick a quick wrecking ball into a scene; without it I could've ditched the opening sign and let the whole ride take place 100 years ago.   :whistling:

As for our differing opinions on historic architecture, I can at least say that I personally had no sentimental attachment to the Canyon.  All of this happened before I lived here.  I did have the pleasure of living downtown for over a decade and was fortunate enough to live in three separate former factories [not in the Canyon] that had been preserved and restored into apartments.  I imagine the same would have happened for Jobbers Canyon, eventually.  As mentioned previously, we do have many success stories with how many old buildings remarkably still stand.  I miss living downtown sometimes, walking along some of the back streets and alleys with the initial brick pavers and streetcar rails still intact.  But I did regret how much grander it all could've been, and was, before I lived there.

My biggest problem here is that all of that history was destroyed only to be replaced with something no more architecturally significant than a strip mall, and then abandoned a mere 20 years later.  For the amount of office space created in the one and two story campus that they built, they could've moved their entire headquarters into two or three of the existing buildings and still had room to spare.   Or they could've built a high rise, which I'd have also been at least somewhat ok with.  Or, because Omaha is neither coastal nor unbuildable swamp land, they could have literally built their campus ANYWHERE ELSE in the entire city, like empty farmland on the outskirts.

Final footnote:  In the first photo above is a quote from one of the ConAgra execs at the time of the demolition, referring to the Canyon as "big, ugly red brick buildings."  Here is a photo of their new corporate headquarters, now in Chicago:



Built in 1930, ConAgra now occupies part of the 13th floor.
Ah this photo brings back the memories from when I grew up and lived most of my life in this city. The Merchandise Mart is huge!

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Re: Peony Park II - Jobbers Canyon [video]
« Reply #167 on: May 22, 2019, 06:03 PM »
BH:  You certainly caught on to the anachronisms, but I'm glad you picked up what each vignette was representing in my mind...

There's no such thing as an anachronism when you're you're telling a story.  Flashbacks have been part of literature since the invention of writing and, thus, no doubt long before in oral tradition.,  Taking things out of order is necessary for the storyteller to focus the attention of those who weren't there to see it all play out in order on the storyteller's message.  First, the audience gets something recent but inexplicable due to having no pre-existing context in their minds, so they wonder, "WTF?".  This primes them to pay more attention to what comes next in the narrative but not necessarily next chronologically, so they get a better understanding of the context as it's presented.  Thus, they gain a better understanding of the 1st scene.  And all this is process is carefully orchestrated by the storyteller so the audience gets the message the storyteller intends.  This whole routine has been exploited for political reasons probably going back to whenever more than 2 nuclear families first had to live withing spitting distance of each other back in the Paleolithic.  It's therefore a classic part of human literature so don't be ashamed of using it ;).

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My biggest problem here is that all of that history was destroyed only to be replaced with something no more architecturally significant than a strip mall, and then abandoned a mere 20 years later.

But think of how future archaeologists will be fascinated by this!  Something of such complexity came up from bare prairie to the Industrial Revolution in the blink of an eye, then passed to a fishpond equally swiftly as economic currents changed direction.  It's really one of the few bright spots I see for future archaeologists, given the current trends of anti-littering, recycling, and making everything biodegradable.  Archaeologists get the vast bulk of their data by digging through ancient trash, yet our present generation is doing all it can to eliminate all trash in its stupid fixation this is "saving the planet" when the real problem is they keep breeding more trash-makers.  But blind to all reason, especially the fact that this planet's climate has changed MUCH more often, and MUCH more extremely, than anything that's happened in the last 10-12K years, this generation crusades on its misguided way, oblivious to the problems such behavior will cause for future archaeologists.  And yet they want to be remembered for "saving the planet".  How can you be remembered if you leave nothing for future generations to dig up?  And the planet will still be here for another 5 billion years or so, so there's no "saving" necessary. 

Such a silly generation.  I'm glad they're choosing to leave no trace as they don't deserve to be remembered.  Ever.  By anybody.  Not even by the few archaeologists still able to find a job in the 22nd Century.

Quote
For the amount of office space created in the one and two story campus that they built, they could've moved their entire headquarters into two or three of the existing buildings and still had room to spare.

True.  But look on the bright side.  You had a bunch of totally useless, irredeemably past-code firetraps, a fire in any of which could have destroyed the whole city depending on the weather.  Now you have a nice pond for recreational fishing and kayaking, plus a jogging trail around it, and some fairly modern buildings that some growing businesses might want to move into if there's such a thing as economic growth in Omaha.  I say that last not as a put-down but as a hopeful salute because I live in the exact opposite place from where economic growth happens.

Like BH said (before I got all depressed reading his 'ashes to ashes, dust to dust' philosophy :P),

No reason to get depressed about it. Memento mori.  It's the way of the world, the solar system, the galaxy, and the universe as a whole.  Entropy always wins.  You can't beat it, you can't break even, and you can't even quit the game.  C'est la vie.
-Bullethead
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Re: Peony Park II - Jobbers Canyon [video]
« Reply #168 on: May 22, 2019, 06:04 PM »
JB:  Now you've got me wondering how the Star Trek peeps were able to go back in time on the holodeck to before that technology existed.  (I vaguely remember a 1920ish episode?)  I suppose it could be debated if restoring a couple of buildings would have been cheaper than the demolition/excavation/new campus with man made lake that they ended up replacing it with.  But I think BH's explanation of why some buildings cannot be saved is certainly valid.  And also, sometimes when you do undertake the expense of saving a building for rental property or condo, you have to go high end to get back the investment.  This is what priced me out of downtown.

Nemmie:  Hahaha, I chose that version of the song because it didn't have her singing it.  Mostly kidding, I chose it on the title and went orchestral so it would fit the time period better.  But also, so it wouldn't have her singing in it.  :P

BH:  They started as anachronisms.  It's embarrassing how long it took me to realize that sign couldn't actually be there the way I was building the ride.  Initially it was all just abandoned and in decay... I added the workers to an early scene as an afterthought to differentiate time passage.  The wrecking ball came last.  You're right, with proper storytelling it works but it certainly didn't start that way.   (Still doesn't explain the Hotel Lobby though :P)

Wowman:  (I'm clearly too lazy to use the quote function tonight)...  I wasn't familiar with it before researching this, but I agree it's VERY large and a very good looking building to boot.  That whole city is beautiful. 

Thanks everyone!  Glad you enjoyed the video, but don't get used to that framerate from me;  I'm going to return this fancy new computer due to a myriad of other problems.  Whatever I eventually settle on will definitely not be this good.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 06:15 PM by JPAlmighT »